Your task:
1. (Communication/Thinking/Application)
Respond to the question. Be sure to include your name either at the top or the bottom of the posting. Your posting should be approximately 250 words. (20 marks)
2. (Communication/Thinking)
Respond to one of your classmates' postings. Remember to be respectful of divergent opinions... (5 marks)
What is your assessment of The Communist Manifesto? To answer this question, perform Google searches (or use other search engines) to quickly establish a context for the book. Was Marx a thinker ahead of his time or was he too much of an idealist? Could his ideas ever work.
29 comments:
Personally, I believe Karl Marx was an idealist. The Communist Manifesto is nothing more than a series of ideas that could never be applied to every society world wide. Although Marx’s thoughts on the bourgeoisie and the proletarians are very true, these two classes in society are necessary. Without an upper and lower class there is no reason to succeed. Therefore, if one knows that if they work hard they will accomplish just as much as the individual who does nothing, there is no initiative to work. This concept leads to a contemporary society with no technological or modern advances. Although Marx says this is a good thing, society during his time clearly did not agree. The Communist Manifesto was written in the mid 1800’s, however, in the late 1700’s the industrial revolution began. This indicated that society wanted a more profitable and capitalist culture. Although this caused grief to the proletarians, it progressed in making advances in societies everywhere. On account of the industrial revolution and the uproar of capitalism, it is evident that a precedent was set. The ideas of the rich becoming richer can be traced back to this time; it is a way of life that still exists today. Therefore, I believe that although Marx’s ideas are very intelligent and that they allow a sense of equality to be reached, they will never work. Marx’s views on communism can never function properly because human nature strives to become better than the next person, therefore, society will never settle on being equal.
-There are no other posts to respond to.
Anna De Lucia!
1) IM GOING TO RESPOND TO THE QUESTION!
2) There is no other posting so I guess I’m going to responding to myself =)
What is your assessment of The Communist Manifesto?
The Communist Manifesto, which was published in 1848, lays down Marx theories on socialism. Marx went around preaching about things he wanted to change like not having States. Eventually he put all his statements into one book, called the Communist Manifesto. In my opinion, I don’t like the Communist Manifesto. It does relate to today but overall it is not good for a society. Seriously, how can there be a society classless and stateless, and the abolition of private property? It just does not make any sense and in my opinion, it is useless. We need some sort of order in society. If we don’t have our own private property, it gives others the right to go on our property and that is SO dangerous. Secondly, states are there to govern the area. I can't imagine how it would be like not having states. Lastly, EVERY SINGLE PERSON DESERVES TO HAVE CLASS. For example: if I worked in a business and I wanted to be in highest rank, I would work hard to get there. But if there is no class, how on earth am I supposed to get that rank in the business??
I really don’t like Marx theories; they are stupid.
Was Marx a thinker ahead of his time or was he too much of an idealist? Could his ideas ever work?
Marx was a thinker ahead of his time. Many of his theories have to do with today's society. Even though his ideas have to do with today's society, it would NEVER work. If his statements were put into play, Canada as a whole would be in chaos. Marx in my opinion does not believe in the safety of the individual. Almost all of his theories are potentially dangerous if put into play. For example, he says society should own all property. What is wrong with this statement: who is considered society? People are going to want more property, and that can leave to a war, within the country!
This CLEARLY shows that even though Marx was ahead of his time, his theories are useless and cant keep a society running. Forget society even the country!
I didn't see Anna's post so here is number two for you =)
I agree with Anna on everything except the fact that Marx is an idealist. Marx was definatly a thinker ahead of his time or there is no way we could use his ideas today (even though that would be a bad thing). He would not have made all these theories if it did not have to do with the future. Every political leader enforces rules or theorizes them based on the future of society.
Other than the statement Anna made about Marx being an idealist, I feel that her other statements are very true. His theories cannot be used in society.
-Andrea Joseph
the one above is also mine, i forgot to write my name
Karl Marx was an old fool who never stopped to think about how his ridiculous ideas would affect society as a whole. Yes, he was an idealist, but his ideas could never work in a government run by human beings. Human beings are by nature easily corruptible. Having a state run by a small group of people would be a disaster, as they would only look out for their own interests. Marx describes his form of Communism as Utopia. Utopia for whom? It just allows the oppressed to become the oppressors. Communism cannot really exist. In theory, the precondition for Communism is the distribution of goods and services based on needs. This is impossible. For this to work, the economy would have to be extremely developed and extremely efficient in order to produce enough for everyone. The systems of Communism as they have been attempted so far are in fact Socialism, a step towards Communism. The Communist regimes of the past promised the people freedom from oppression and equality for all. In reality, it was a living hell. Not only does it oppress the people it is supposed to protect, it also breeds hatred among the people. If Marx was so ahead of his time, then he should have realized that his ideas wouldn't even work in his society, let alone a futuristic one.
In regards to what Andrea posted, I agree with her on everything, except the idea that Marx was ahead of his time. Communism can never really work, it is firmly controlled but is highly inefficient. Communism's idea of equality is just an illusion that covers up the social and moral decay of its societies.
-Martina Vlasic
Though I agree with Karl Marx's philosophies on class conflict and the struggle between bourgeoisie and proletarians, I believe that Karl Marx, although very intelligent, was an idealist and a radical. The Manifesto talks about obtaining power from the bourgeoisie through uprising and revolt which would surely cause chaos. Once the proletariat is successful in their revolution, then the communists will abolish all forms of national borders so that the world becomes one. This idea is almost laughable because I doubt that every nation would welcome communism. Furthermore, Marx talks about the abolition of private property which is just as impractical. Honestly, how can depriving people of owning their individual property, be for the good of the community when all property is owned by the government? Also, Marx then talks about shifting all the means of production and power to the state. This is a supremely awful idea because history has taught us that nothing good comes out of unrestricted power. A corrupt centralized government can exploit and oppress the common man much more than the bourgeois class did to the proletarians.
Another factor that proves that Marx is an idealist is that human nature is an obstruction towards reaching a system where everything is shared and everyone looks out for each other. To quote Thomas Hobbes, "human beings are cruel and selfish beings." Capitalism sure suits that philosophy because through business we can obtain money and fulfil our selfish desires. Though we can be taught to think of our fellow man, we are still more concerned with our own priorities. The concept of sharing with our community and being equal to everyone else does not really appeal to us because we like to think that we, as individuals, are better than others in every aspect. We simply cannot live in a society where the taxes are higher for those who make more etc.
~* In terms of the debate issue, I must say that it is impossible to do so because the comments that i have read have the same point of view as mine: that communism is simply an ideal that cannot function in society for various reasons.
-Teodora Tellieva
In Karl Marx's time, there was no reality to "equal rights", therefore his Communist views are VERY idealistic. However, I believe that Marx was an idealist far too ahead of his time. If Karl Marx would have been born in the future, people would have appreciated his work more. In my opinion Marx's ideas were great because class separation is a waste of time.
I agree with Marx's communist views on abolishing social classess to allow a more equal society.
Three things must be changed in order for communism to function properly:
1: Those who are governing can become corrupt and go against their own rules. Therefore a new way for 'elect' a communist government is needed. (For example a rotary system, where many people get a chance to change something for the better.)
2:If humans could actually learn to tolerate each other, Communism could truly be a good thing for the world.
3: People need to be able to own their own land, even if everybody owns the exact same size of property. This will prove that the people are free, and Communism is truly there to help the needs of the people.
I agree with all of the above posts, but at the same time one must look at all sides of the issue. On one hand, communism is corrupt and stops any sort of modern advances. However, on the other hand, other forms of goverment are corrupt as well, and so far they haven't worked either.
-Liana Angelucci.
p.s: martina is my hero!
As they say, Karl Marx was indeed an idealist at his time. The Communist Manifesto was a documented paper written in the mid nineteenth century by Karl Marx, a member of the Communist League. This document is known for spreading the ideology that the goal of the communist is not to take over the government as society sees communism now, but to dissolve the works the class structure the bourgeoisie had started since the feudal era. Marx had many interesting ideals on how the communists should run the world, in terms of dissolving their rival. Marx first explains how the bourgeoisie treated their workers with little respect and hardly a legitimate wage in order to survive. Since the workers (proletariat) are tired of being treated as chattel, they are forced to start revolutions to overthrow their owners. Throughout the generations up towards today, these two classes are constantly fighting in order to achieve a better world. Through the eyes of Marx, he wants people to unite under one nation and destroy the socialist movements caused by the bourgeoisie. These ideals that Marx mention are indeed to be taken seriously, however if today, these ideas are already in play.
By looking at the modern society, workers all over the world are recognized and formed unions, which give certain rights for employees, such as healthcare, gas free prices, anything that is materialistic. By comparing both time periods, Marx explained communism for that his time period was in the change of the industrialization, with newfound technology. With today, Marx idea of communism is the basis of how workers over the world gain their money. The idea of revolution is already present, the fact of which the class structure between the rich and poverty will always be fought, since the owners are the rich and people with little money are the workers. If the world is full of the rich, they will destroy themselves, since they lack the experience of how to work, compared to the workers. If the workers take control of their owners, they lack the discipline of how to run a country or company, these two structures balance each other, just as any other idea such as good and evil. Communism today, is viewed as dictatorship rather than people uniting to work for a better world. However communism through the definition of Marx and democracy is handed together, without communism, workers today would have been treated poorly as the rates of poverty rise. Without democracy, people will be ruining each other lives with fear that one man will destroy all. Thus to say that in the words of Marx, people are united as long the bourgeoisie does not make another move towards eliminating their counter part which are the workers. To acknowledge the facts of Marx’s theories, however today, his ideas are flawed, since people misinterpreted his message, and used it for a state of war.
By looking at the other posts, submitted by other students, Anna is correct in everyway. She is right in saying how Marx’s ideas were indeed used throughout the late 1700’s and 1800’s, yet today as Anna states “people will strive to be better than the other”. With this, this idea of the communism can not work, since the state of mankind frequently changes over time from the age of industrialization to the age of computers today.
This was submitted by John Schokman
p.s. Liana is not my hero. Teodora is my hero, and maybe if Paezano comments on my post in a positive way.
Some may say that Karl Marx was an idealist with unrealistic concepts that could never be applied to a society, but personally I argue that he was indeed a realist and understood more about the modern world then some of today’s politicians do. The Communist Manifesto was written in the 1800’s not to long after the industrial revolution, and seeing how Karl Marx supported communism he might have been against the whole revolution in general. This may be seen as an excuse for his reasoning of socialism, but what some seem to ignore is the fact that history repeats itself and Marx was able to argue this theory using solid proof such as the French Revolution and the Industrial Revolution (to name a few), which really makes one wonder if social classes where truly abolished would our world be a more peaceful place today. The only explanation for a Revolution to occur which our society refuses to believe is the fact that humans are flawed by nature and are greedy driven for property and material wealth. Instead of re-living failed revolutions consisting of an oppressor oppressed cycle, Marx offers a theory for the Prouetarians to fully understand their struggle and instead of turning into Bougreois, they have the opportunity to create a truly free society.
The concept of Communism will never work in OUR society as Canadians are too adapt to Canada’s method of equitable distribution of income with only a 37% difference of our countries wealth distributed from our highest and lowest quintile groups. But nations such as the United States of America that have a much larger distribution of wealth from their highest quintile to their lowest quintile should consider other methods to distribute wealth in order to avoid backlashes such as crime. What Americans need is Marx’s theory of Communism in order to abolish any property, thus abolishing any class structures and insuring an equal way of living amongst all citizens. Capitalism isn’t the only way to run a country, and communism does not automatically indicate a cruel government ruling. Cuba has been able to implement communism to run their nation for an astonishing number of decades. The problem with Marx’s` concept is not the idea itself, but how every individual would react to this sort of government. Is it truly fair that a surgeon working long hours in order to save lives be rewarded as much as an individual who works as a cashier in a local clothing store?
RESPONE TO MARTINAS POST:
You raise valuable points, but oversee that America is run by one leader, if they implemented a system where the whole country was ran by a group of people their power would be shared. In addition (not to be rude) but everyone’s opinion voting against Karl Marx’s theory of communism is some what bias as we all are fortunate enough to live a well off lifestyle instead of living to barley meet ends meat or in poverty. For those living a harsh, poor lifestyle communism would indeed benefit them, and we should take everyone’s needs into consideration before bashing the idea of equality.
In my particular perspective, my understanding is that Karl Marx was in fact, an IDEALIST. The interesting factor is that his particular ideas created the concept of Communism which can not be taken for more than a bunch of ideas that could not be applied into the society and you and I live in. It has come to my attention that Karl Marx's theories of the 2 working classes in society was accurate. The bourgeoisie who are the manufacturing class; the capitalist that exploit workers and the proletariat who are the workers who in order to survive are selling their labour. These are the two classifications of society, I pose the question who would you like to be? If the bourgeoisies are such terrible leaders and the proletariat never move up in life are they both such appealing places to be per say? This type of seperation causes distress and rebellion between the two parties there for the chain will continue: the oppressed will over take their oppressors who in turn will become the oppressors. It is evident that the Communist Manifesto was written during the mid 1800; as we all know the industrial revolution began in the late 1700's. During this time we have a indicator that the world wants to change and become more profitable; The era of change.
Karl Marx was what he acclaimed himself to be an IDEALIST and just that. His ideas were not realistic to fit our society. I will not say that the human mind is easy to corrupt but it is easy to plant foolish and unnecessary ideas and to manipulate. Just the notion of having the world run by a small group of men seemed to be catastrophic, who in their right mind would say yes I say that we all need to give up our rights and freedoms to follow the beliefs that this one group of one-minded individuals run US in particular and much less our government. It is Ridiculous! I have a mind of my own and I choose what I believe in what would make anyone during that time think any different. Communistic ideas are such that it forces everyone to assimilate and become the SAME, this brings extreme hatred to the people living in the nations. NOW imagine the whole world hating each other, country against country there would be more chaos than there is now! Communism picks one belief, one prized group of people, what happens if you do not fit that criteria? If Marx realized that his ideas presented in the communist manifesto did not work his current time frame, how would they have worked in a futuristic one? In closing, his ideas were nothing more than just IDEAS.
Debate Perspective:
RESPONDING TO MARTINA AND JOHN'S POSTS:
I really agree with Martina, especially the fact that Karl Marx was a 'old fool.' That is the reality. His ideas in my perspective were just meant to be saved as ideas not put into action. If you do not believe me look at the history if the present day Communist Countries to spell out the truth. But I do have to disagree with John because he stated that 'If the workers take control of their owners, they lack the discipline of how to run a country or company, these two structures balance each other, just as any other idea such as good and evil. Communism today, is viewed as dictatorship rather than people uniting to work for a better world.' Reality is COMMUNISM IS A DICTATORSHIP! hello, we would be waking up to the "MAN" telling us where we have to work, and where our 'type' would live in society. dicisions would be made for us because we gave their our rights. Now I'm sorry but I believe in standing for my rights as an individual. i disagree with the fact that if workers took control of their owners they would lack the ability to control them because to be a skilled worker one has to understand their field of expertises and there fore what better candidate to sand firm and lead a part of their particular government. In my opinion the whole concept of communism is very rough and it makes living life unbearable in lame terms IT IS FOOLISH!
-Keisha Nedd
Karl Marx wrote the communist manifesto in 1848. Essentially, this manifesto suggest equality for all and a communist government. Marx suggest a course of action for a proletarian revolution to overthrow the bourgeois. This would create a classless and stateless society according to Marx. With this revolution, would come great chaos and the oppressed would become the oppressors. Marx also stated that through this revolution, private property would be demolished. Karl Marx was not a thinker ahead of his time; he was more of an idealist. His thoughts are merely just ideas that would never work in society. The class structure of the bourgeois and proletarians are necessary in a society. Without an upper class and lower class, there would be no advancements in life. There would be no motivation for people to work hard since there is nothing to gain. With the abolishment of private property, there is nothing more for humans to aspire to reach for. There would be no hopes or dreams for people, and in essence life would become meaningless. The industrial revolution took place in the late 1700’s, which shows that the world is interested in advancing the means of life. The idea of communism would stop any chances of improving the way of life. If anything, the quality of life would be lowered. Karl Marx also wrote about his idea to shift all production and power to the state. This would be giving the government unrestricted power which could easily be used wrongfully. This would corrupt the society more so than the bourgeois class did. Overall, Karl Marx was a man with an unrealistic idea of how the world should be ruled. In the end he was just an Idealist.
Debate Perspective:
Responding to Keisha’s post.
I agree with what Keisha has said in her post. Karl Marx is an idealist. I also agree with her statement that people could become easily fooled, and that a centralized government being ruled by a small group of people would be a disaster. I agree that we are individuals and should have the right to live our lives with choices, instead of being dictated what to do in every single aspect of my life. I like having the freedom to choose where I work, where I lvie and how I live. In Keisha’s words communism is FOOLISH!
-Kathy Gostek
1) whoever is reading this, you have my most sincere apologies.
2)I dare you to challenge me.
Personally I believe that Marx stumbled on a great idea but however he was misguided in the sense that, he placed no model for people to follow leaving it open to interpretation. Then people abused the ideal of communism and used it for personal gain. He was a brilliant man whose idea was far advanced for his time. He saw though the industrial revolution that people would become these power hungry and mindless drones, whose only concern was money. They way I see the bourgeoisie and proletarians is our current society and the people who try to find there own path. Could his ideas ever work? They did, and still continue to do in my books.
The flaw of communism is that there should be no government structured, it should be structured only as a community. This is because Communism is the idea of a free society with no division or alienation, where mankind is free from oppression and scarcity. A communist society would have no governments, countries, or class divisions. In Marxism-Leninism, Socialism is the intermediate system between capitalism and communism, when the community is in the process of changing the means of ownership from privatism, to collective ownership. In saying this I believe that Hippies are the true communists. They are the true faction that fit in communist ideals. The whole revolution bit, couldn’t you say was the counter culture in the sixties? They didn’t exactly overthrow the government and say down with it all but it had a huge impact on our society, their ideas and values many people hold in regard.
part 2.
I think my argument went against everything that Martina and a few others. But in response I disagree with Teodora when she says "obtaining power from the bourgeoisie through uprising and revolt which would surely cause chaos",
-Nick Paesano
When I hear the name Karl Marx I picture an idealist. I believe that the Communist Manifesto is trying to show how the world is just repeating itself by the roles of oppressor and the oppressed and how it will always stay like this unless we eliminate this class structure. Karl Marx made very strong arguments supporting communist especially when using religion. He argues that Communist is the closest relating government to religion saying how religion tells us to give up all material wealth (private property). If we were able to eliminate the class structure maybe the world would be a more peaceful place to live in being happy with what we have, but if we have this we would never get anywhere. It is human nature to always want more and it's mostly seen in a negative light, but this is why we have many advancements. Us as humans never being satisfied strives us to want more and push our boundaries, we reach a new high and accomplish new things as human beings. I look at the Communist Manifesto as a children's book showing them a Utopia. I personally see Karl Marx as an idealist, He supported his ideas very strongly but I am still not convinced that a Communist government is what is best for the world. He wrote this book in 1848 so imagine if people agreed with him when he wrote this and the world was run by communism, think of all the technological advancements that has happened since then the TV, Radio, a few years after this book was written the Wright Bros. had there first successful flight. If we followed his way of life some of the diseases that are seen as nothing today would be such a problem in that time. We need revolutions to move on, they show us the mistakes of the past so we can make the world that much better.
Debate Perspective:
Kathy Gostek
I strongly agree with her arguements that show Karl Marx as an Idealist it simply cannot work in the world today and even if it did it would not have a positive affect. Kathy shows how government having all the power would just be chaotic and it would be "used wrongfully". So Karl Marx is not a postive affect on the world and most people can clearly see his ideas will never work.
p.s. Yes Kathy you do still suck =)
-Ariel Benavidez
Karl Marx, a writer of the communist manifesto and closed minded philosopher could be considered as an idealist of his time. The manifesto which was written in 1848, can not even remotely apply to the society that we live in today. The Manifesto which suggested a world of communism and equality, would be something impossible to apply to our way of life. The ideas of abolishing states and having the oppressed no longer being the “underdog” of the generation in some essence could have been an intelligent idea. Everyone would reap the benefits the world has to offer and the poor would no longer suffer. Although, it was not well thought out, some could have benefited from it. The manifesto wanted for proletarians, the working class to cause the downfall of the bourgeois. This theory seems to be hypocritical for there would always be a party in rule. If the bourgeois and the proletarians are no longer different from one another they still have the government telling them what needs to be done. I also highly doubt that if the oppressed finally over ruled the oppressor; they would want to be equal to them. They would try to get power creating a never ending cycle of a chase for power. Also, how is it fair if those few people in rule are still classifying themselves? Marx must have been oblivious in knowing how the human race operated. We are a greedy and care much about status and wealth rather than helping those who need it. No one would want to give up what the own, if they are of higher class. It would be like they were demoting themselves
The idea of communism is a terrible and in the sense that we need classification to survive in the world. No one would want to put forth the effort in trying to develop the world for they are being suppressed. In today’s society who would study to become a doctor if they knew that they would get paid as much as someone who answers phones for a living. As horrible as it may sound, we need the poor class to jobs the benefit our growth as a whole. If Marx’s theories were something that were pursued since the 1800s to the present day than we may not have had as much advancement as we do. There would also be mass amounts displeased with their government. I believe that as a society under communism we would have a revolution for we do not like to be held back. There has been and always will be classification in the world.
Debate perspective:
In what keisha and Kathy said.
Marx was most definitely an idealist. How could he possible be someone who had bright ideas for our future. Our society rejected the communist government because it caused chaos. The only countries under communist rule today would not be a place where you would enjoy living. It just goes to show how extremely greedy we are. We can not handle being equal or being in different classifications. In agree with both of what you stated in you responses.
I also agree with andrea in that if we did not own property then there may not a be society and it would eventually lead to war within that country.
I believe that Karl Marx was an idealist. When he wrote the Communist Manifesto he was suggesting a way of life that ensured equality for all. Throughout the manifesto 2 classes in society were mentioned, the Bourgeois(manufacturing class) and the Proletarians(workers). The goal of communism is to eliminate this system of classes by abolishing private property. While this seems like a good idea because it promotes equality it is not very realistic. Someone who is working at a job that involves a lot of time, stress, skill and effort is not going to warm up to the idea of someone who does nothing getting the same advantages in life as him/her. The desire to reach these advantages, is what keeps society constantly advancing. With out an upper and lower class no one will feel the need to work harder than anyone else because they know they wont end up being better off. In the Communist Manifesto Marx also talks about shifting all the means to production and power to the state. I think this is a horrible idea because people are easily corruptible and I don’t believe a small group of people could handle all the power.
I agree with most of the above postings. Many people have the same viewpoint in that communism will most likely never work due to the corruption of people and the needs of a society.
-Jessica Oades
Christina T.
I very much agree with Anna that Karl Marx was an idealist. This can be identified through his impractical visions and idealistic views for society, as to the way it should function instead of how it already functions. His communist views consist of equality, and therefore the removal of privitization; which would essentially leave no one behind because everyone is on the same level. Therefore, I do also agree with Anna that the Communist Manifesto could never be applied to every society world wide,simply due to the fact that we, along with many other countries do not live this way. As it has been often attempted in past years, it has failed as a result of violence and fear being used to remove opression, as well as the struggle for further sucess and power of the individual. However, i do believe it can be applied to some societies- as it exists in few- but still some- but these socities are looked down upon by the rest of the world due to the inability to excel as an individual when under such circumstances. Marx's theories played a large role in the Communist Manifesto, as they served as a scape goat for the oppression of the Proletariat's; whom sold their labour for surivival, and had no ownership of anything as a result of the Bourgeoisie; the manufacturing class whom exploit workers and hold all ownership of property express the dependency of underdeveloped countries on the Western World as a result. This is due to the need for a constant market expansion by the Bourgeouisie, which led to the struggle of the proletariat for equality; begining with payment of sufficient value for their labour, and ownership of land if purchased. Following this revolution and then the demand for their rights by the Proloetariats, the Manifesto introduces communism through the abolishment of the Bourgeoisie and their property, as well as all private property, to establish one class therefore removing the division of classes. No one is above or below another individual. This would essentially lead the proletariats to freedom, and remove their exploitation. Despite that these concepts establish equality and remove the struggle of the lower class completely, they are extremely unrealistic. Marx was a communist who established many of these concepts and beliefs. The outlook of individuals in the western world especially, are to become better then everyone else, to strive to be the best, meaning; competitiveness. It is scene through the western society that no one wants to be on the same level as their peers- we all want better, the main goal of what we work for is to achieve better, and end on top. Despite that Marx's ideas allow for no one to be left behind, we live in a world where the best interest of society as a whole is not of priority to the individual, only his/herself is, we often describe it as "every man for himself."
When analyzing the "Communist Manifesto" of Marx and Engel, we can clearly see what the goals of this “idea” were. A socialized structure of government in which people are free of capitalist negligence and do not have to be forced into a societal cycle of bourgeoisie and proletariat classes until the end of mankind. Achieving this classless society while still maintaining equality is beyond the ability of humans. Humans want and crave for more every day of their lives and in this craving they have developed a system of government that reaches their materialistic needs. Communism abolishes the idea of ownership and property in an attempt to rid society of materialistic gain. Though this societal structure seems like a great idea, it is just that, an idea. Ths is an idea that would not work in a society full of human beings because at the end of the day humans love their money and would not want to let go of materialistic things that they believe make them who they are. We are all lost, but have come to a point where we are comfortable with misinterpreting happiness and an ideal quality of life. It is because of this that individuals tend to corrupt when given a place of power.
Look around you, no government works completely. No matter what government you look at, there is some form of corruption. We as humans have identified this and therefore have avoided government structures in which power is granted to few. The less people in power, the greater fraction of power each person attains.
It comes down to us. We have to change, not our governments, not our political structures, US.
Nefty Gonzalez
I believe that Marx’s is an idealist. It is not possible for a nation to go under communism and come out successful just look at history Cuba a nation with poverty and Russia. Although he brings out some excellent points such as everyone being equal that nation’s racism and predigest would not be at the same severity then other nation. Believing that a nation without any social classes is absurd in my opinion because that is what makes a nation prosperous. Although Marx’s thoughts on the bourgeoisie and the proletarians are very true, these two classes in society are necessary. This type of government prevents the nation to progress such as economically and technology compared to a country that is not governed by a Communism.
• I believe that this style of government would have been corrupted such as it is in today’s day(Cuba) the people would have not been to see the reason to try hard it succeed because there is no reward for you efforts. Such as occupations.
• I believe that communism would have been great in that era but it is in human nature that some have to ruin it for all and some men and women get corrupted with power would have brought the economy to its knees.
• I don’t agree that all men and women should not have any property but I do agree that all the men and women start off at the same amount of land. So they all have an equal chance to become successful.
One main reason that this would never work because since the beginning of time people have been trying to be more successful then their others
I agree with anna and jessica and many more students because we all basically think that this man had some great points but was to much of an idealist for example no one owned anything.
Karl Marx was an idealist that was way ahead of his time, his concept of the constant struggle of bourgeoisie and proletariat can be applied to many aspects of life. No one can be expected to live a life of equality run by a few men, but no one should be living in oppression constantly. I believe that instead of taking his ideas in a literal meaning, we should take them as a more symbolic meaning. During.
There are a lot of things that i don't agree with Karl Marx, but the one thing i do agree on is the fact that no one should live in oppression, the bourgeois need the proletariat to survive. Instead of helping the proletariat get out of oppression, the bourgeois make it harder for them to revolt.
At the time the industrial revolution was taking place and Karl Marx was able to see the impending doom that was to befall much of the still developing countries. I think he was able to see that far periphery countries of the time were going to have a much harder time revolting against the Bourgeois ( western society).
The greatest example of this type of oppression is Ethiopia.Ethiopia's main form of agriculture is cotton, why? Because the UK suggested that instead of farming wheat for food, that they should farm cotton. It costs them 3 dollars to make and it is only sold for 1 dollar. Ethiopia is perhaps the greatest example of a proletariat and UK along with the rest of western society being the bourgeois. When i read the manifesto, I didn't think of it as a political party, i took it more as a way of life. Its not right what we are doing, but we must do what we have to do to enjoy the everyday luxuries that we go through everyday.
The thing that i disagree on the most with communism is that there is never any initiative. Equality is something that i do not believe in, call me a monster, but it is my right to not be equal to anyone, I believe that i am better than a lot of people, and it is that belief that makes me work hard to stay that way. If everyone is equal, then why try to invent things, why go into medicine and law if doctors are equal to garbage men. It is the belief of inequality that runs western society and is what keeps it strong today.
(Liana)
Abolishing class structure is not solving anything. If there was no class structure, then why bother going to school to become all you can be, why bother studying, why bother trying to discover a cure for a deadly disease. With no class structure, there is no initiative for anything. I like the fact that i am better than other people. It's what wakes me up in the morning and gets me started. No class structure means no advancement in society.
I will now reply to Liana's comment!
I believe that communism is 100% WRONG. I believe that class structure must exist, it is was keeps society functioning properly. If one can accomplish great things in life why should they be a member of the same class as one who has done nothing? It is evident that with class structure the world moves forward and motivates people to become better. In regards to property rights,there is no way that upper class society would be pleased to have the same amount of property as someboddy else who may be in the category of homeless. I believe that its unrealistic to even propose this! Lastly,humans are flawed.. There is NO WAY everyone could ever get along and tolerate one another for communisim to prevail. Thats beyond unrealistic, especially in a first world, democratic country.
-Anna:)
In response to Alex and Anna:
There can still be advancements in societies without class structure. For example, Anna said "if one can accomplish great things in life why should they be a member of the same class as one who has done nothing?" I disagree with this, because considering everything would be equal and even, everybody would be doing the same amout of work. And some goes for the "Upper Class" not appreciating the amount of land they are given...I say TOO BAD to them, because clearly having them as the Upper Class to begin with hasn't done a single useful thing for this world. And perhaps without Social Classes everyone can get a chance to be able to live without having to starve themselves today so that they can eat tomorrow.
However Anna was right in saying the Human race is far too flawed and materialistic for Communism to ever truly work.
Liana Angelucci:)
Personally i believe that Karl Marx was a realist. The reasoning behind my opinion is beacuse wat Marx is trying to say is that with class in the world society will never be able to treat one another fairly because their class will interfear in the way of their personal opinons or desicions.Most wars are fought based on class ,for example if one were to look at world war two it was really based on class.Hitler felt that the jews were part of the lower class of society and that in order for the "superior race"(upper class) to have success they needed to kill every jew and every diabled person & gypsy beacuse he saw them as the lower classmens of society. I do believe that not all of Karl Marx's ideas would actually work in society just beacuse eveyone still does deserve the right to freedom and their own opinoin but with socail classes in society the world will never be at peace with one another, as humans we are alwyas trying to "keep up with the Joneses" wich ultimatley means that we are never satisfied untill we are at the top no matter how many "small people" we crush on the way there. Elimanating classes probablly would not work in todays world because their are to many rich powerful people who depend on the "lower class" to give them wealth.
part 2
As for my response to the other post i really agree with samantha's opinion about having communism for people in poor countires because it waould then make everyone equal. I think that when people hear the word COMMUNISM they refer it to DICTATORSHIP but those are two diferent worlds and society's wether we want to believe it or not. Another point is that although we live in a democratic society which is supposed to be built on "freedom" i sure do not fell free as i would like to be.
My assessment of the Communist Manifsto:
The impact of The Communist Manifesto has been remarkable. This small book has been translated into all the major languages and has remained an inspiration for generations of socialists (which is unfortunate). The Communist Manifesto is perhaps the one writing that would change the world forever (in a bad way). In my opinion, communism solves some problems, and creates other problems. If it actually worked,it might not be half bad. In practice, communism has NEVER been an effective form of government. This is why I do not like the Communist Manifesto. The book has smart ideas but overall, it would not be good for society. It would DEFINATLY make society corrupt. People would rebel and wars would start from it. If I had the choice to choose to use the Communist Manifesto, i would use some ideas but not all because most of Marx ideas are not good for society. Marx was a thinker ahead of his time because his idea seemslike he is talking about the future.
2. I fully disagree with Denisia's post. COMMUNISM IS ALWAYS WRONG. Communism includes people having barely any rights. How is that fair? When I think of the word communism, i dont think of dictatorship, so your statement is wrong. Where Denisia also goes wrong in my opinion is when she states that having Democracy is not being as free as one wants to be. At least we have the rights and freedoms we need! If we over do our rights and freedoms, our society can and WILL become corrupt. People will be able to do whatever they want to do whenever they want to. People hate and they will kill, if we over give freedom how can killing be justified for example? Communism gives people barley no rights and most of the poor countries are run by COMMUNISTS! therefore the country is communist. People in poor countries deserve democracy and even though they dont get full freedom, it is at least better than communism.
Grecia
I believe that Karl Marx was an idealist. If you look at the manifesto in a different way, it actually makes a lot of sense. Taking away money from the rich and spreading it out to the poor is like Robin Hood. Karl probably had good intentions when he thought about this idea and theory. He was just thinking about equality and preventing poverty because no one can really be poor if everyone earns the same money. When i first thought of the idea of 'Marxism' I thought it would mean that everyone is middle class and comfortable with money. But the reason why this would never work for real in life is because people are naturally greedy.
Communism is when the government takes everyone's money and divides it equally among the nation. But since the government is greedy they may pocket some of that capital for themselves (and their needs). There is also the problem that not everyone wants to be the same as their neighbor. People naturally want more in life (in everything as well). Which means more money, bigger house, nicer cars etc. This creates conflict between citizens and their government.
I don't really think Karl Marx was ahead of his time, i think he was more behind it. As we go through to the future, everything changes. We have so many types and different levels of jobs, how could Marxism fit into it? I don't think it would be right if a doctor was getting paid the same as a cashier at a grocery store? if it was like that no one would be pursuing a career that takes such hard work and effort, if there's no capital goal for it. One example on how messed up communism is about Cuba. Maids, dancers, waiters and other resort workers are paid twice as much as a doctor in that country because of all the tips they receive from tourists like us. I think communism is just another way of controlling EVERYBODY. i know in Vietnam that they used to control how much rice you were allowed to buy a week, no matter if you did have the money for more.
I would rather have more freedom then more equality. =)
in according to nick p
I do not think Karl Marx was a man ahead of his time because we are clearly ahead of his time and his communist rule is still in the shadows compared to other government structures, and I don’t see this changing any time in the future. Part of your response is true, people ARE power hungry and this is what strives us wanting bigger better things. I don't see how wanting to become a better person by working your @$$ off to get a good job and good pay makes you a mindless drone. It is quite the opposite it is as humans us trying to stand out from being average. What communist wants is to be mindless drones where the government has every say and the citizens have no input in whatever is going on. If communism had no structure and no leaders it would be chaos!! There has always been some kind of government in power no matter how bad it was. Even tracing back thousands of years someone has always been in charge. We need leaders because we need someone to blame. If we have leaders and all hell breaks loose we simply just blame it on the leaders and go on with our lives thinking we had nothing to do with it. Even the hippies were structured.
Hippies in the 60s were just a bunch of pot smoking teens who thought that their government was wrong because some guy with a megaphone was feeding them ideas while they were having a good trip. And I don’t believe they had a strong impact on society simply because if you asked people to describe hippies in one word i could guarantee most will say "potheads" not "revolutionists"
This is why Karl Marx was an idealist not a thinker ahead of his time. Also while the US in command; Communist will never have its time in the spotlight.
- Ariel Benavidez
The Communist Manifesto is a book written by Karl Marx. It was published in 1848 and not many people agreed with what is said in it. However some citizens enjoyed what Karl Marx, an idealist, had wrote. Shown in the first line of his book, "The history of all hitherto existing society is the history of class struggles," I believe Karl Marx's theories were not theories that could lasted through society. Throughout The Communist Manifesto, he shows what he believes in with his attitude agaisnt relationships towards others. Everyone needs there own space and property without people violating eachother and starting dilemmas. Marx did not believe in having privacy with anything but he did believe that Communism's idea of freedom was based on an obstacle. His goal is to abolish private property, therefore to eliminate a system of classes. In chapter two of The Communist Manifesto, he doesn't believe communism is not equal to nationality; it represents the interests of the movement as a whole. People living in a society should have the same respect for eachother and not be treated differently. Although Marx is an idealist, I do not think his ideas will work because he does not know how to settle down and make the right decisions.
I agree with Keisha when she stated that Marx acclaimed himself to be an idealist but his ideas were not realistic to fit our society because in order for an idealist to speak, I think that the society should agree with his sayings. With Marx's situation, most people did not agree with his ideas.
Karl MArx wrote the communist manifesto which isnt releavant in todays society. becuase many people didnt believe in his communist views his ideas weren't used throughout society later on. Marx wanted to abolish all private property but i believe that that cant help a society because we need private property. His ideas were put against society because if we relate it back to the bourgeouis and proletarians his ideas werent thought out right. we need a higher and lower class in society in order just to make a society what it is. there needs to be a working class and a lower class. without these two classes there would be no room to succeed and noone would eventually serve a purpose.He beleived that the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. this is still relvant in todays society because thats jsut the reality of things but there is nothing written which needs to be followed to make this statemnt true. Unfortuantelly , yes this is still relevant today but its not like we have anyone higher then us saying if your rich get richer and if ure poor get poorer. this is one main reason why i dont agree with Marx because he leaves no room in society for anything to change. if his ideas were put into place today nothing would ever get down and we would all be considered in the lower class.Marxs theories couldnt work today becuase everyone has difernt positions in society and differnt goals , we cant all possibly be apart of one group abolishing all private property.
In response to Lianas posting i dont agree with her just as i kind of stated becuase society cant all be joined as one. IF this was the case there would be no reason to try and do better for yourself and even for those around you. I agree with anna because she has good ideas to his writings and i like when she stated that without two classes in society there is no reason to succedd.
Lina Perruzza
p.s sorry im posting so late miss!
Karl Marx was an idealist that was way ahead of his time, his concept of the constant struggle of bourgeoisie and proletariat can be applied to many aspects of life. No one can be expected to live a life of equality run by a few men, but no one should be living in oppression constantly. I believe that instead of taking his ideas in a literal meaning, we should take them as a more symbolic meaning.There are a lot of things that i don't agree with Karl Marx, but the one thing i do agree on is the fact that no one should live in oppression, the bourgeois need the proletariat to survive. Instead of helping the proletariat get out of oppression, the bourgeois make it harder for them to revolt. He could see this happening and I believe that he could see to what scale it would escalate to.When Karl Marx wrote the manifesto the industrial revolution was taking place and Karl Marx was able to see the impending doom that was to befall much of the still developing countries. I think he was able to see that far periphery countries of the time were going to have a much harder time revolting against the Bourgeois ( western society).
The greatest example of this type of oppression is Ethiopia.Ethiopia's main form of agriculture is cotton, why? Because the UK suggested that instead of farming wheat for food, that they should farm cotton. It costs them 3 dollars to make and it is only sold for 1 dollar. Ethiopia is perhaps the greatest example of a proletariat and UK along with the rest of western society being the bourgeois. When i read the manifesto, I didn't think of it as a political party, i took it more as a way of life. Its not right what we are doing, but we must do what we have to do to enjoy the everyday luxuries that we go through everyday.
The thing that i disagree on the most with communism is that there is never any initiative. Equality is something that i do not believe in, call me a monster, but it is my right to not be equal to anyone, I believe that i am better than a lot of people, and it is that belief that makes me work hard to stay that way. If everyone is equal, then why try to invent things, why go into medicine and law if doctors are equal to garbage men. It is the belief of inequality that runs western society and is what keeps it strong today.
i added, fixed up parts that didn't make sense and edit grammar and sentence structure :)
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